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Post Info TOPIC: Loyalties
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VP of Operations

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Date: February 12th
Loyalties
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Just a couple of questions...

I know some of our membership resides in towns that have minor leagues teams.  If you root for those teams, do you necessarily have a loyalty for the Major League clubs they are affiliated with?

If so, what happens when a city switches to a new organization?



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General Manager

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Date: February 12th
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Here in Rochester, we famously were the farm team for two organizations........the Cardinals and the Orioles. There are STILL many Orioles fans in the area, and still say they should never have severed their ties with the team for the Twins.

Funny little story..........the first year of Target Field, I took a trip there (the place is gorgeous). Before the game I took a walk into the team store. Naturally there was no Red Wings merchandise, not did I expect there to be. But before I looked around, I asked if they sold any Rochester gear, and the sales person looked at me like I had 7 arms. When I stated I was from Rochester, and the Twins were their parent club, he had no clue......no did any other stadium employee that I mentioned this to..........nor did any fan I mentioned this to.........

Personally, I could give a rip about the Twins (no offense to GaryNJH). The Cardinals affiliation was before I was born, but I definitely followed the Orioles during their tenure. Went to a lot of the exhibition games (when they used to play them yearly), got many autographs from future HOF'ers while they either played here (Eddie Murray and Cal Ripken for example) or came for the exhibition game. Wasn't necessarily a fan of the O's, but took a liking to them and followed their players in my formative baseball years.

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Umpire

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Date: February 12th
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I did when I lived in Alabama. The Biscuits are the AA team for the Rays. I got lucky. Now it's the Pensacola Blue Wahoos, AA for the Reds. I have no affinity to the Wahoos. I'll watch them, but I'll wear Biscuits stuff when they come to town.

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Umpire

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As a kid the AAA Indianapolis Indians were the Reds AAA team. When I got into middle school they switched to the Expos. I rooted for individuals in Montreal, but not the team. I saw all their guys who made an impact in the 90s. I felt bad for the 94 Expos because I had seen many of them play.

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VP of Operations

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Thanks, nac, NO.

Very interesting. Do fans in those cities, in general, tend to stay with the teams they grew up with? Or, do they switch when the organization does (even if the team store doesn't know jack).

Do the newspapers switch their big league coverage? I was in Indy in '75, at Ft. Benjamin Harrison, going to Journalism school. The city was all about the Reds at the time.

Where do they trend now? I see they are affiliated with the Pirates.

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VP of Operations

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Another question:

Why did the Reds cut ties with Indianapolis?  Couldn't they come to a new deal with Indy when their working agreement expired? 



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General Manager

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seajaw wrote:

Thanks, nac, NO.

Very interesting. Do fans in those cities, in general, tend to stay with the teams they grew up with? Or, do they switch when the organization does (even if the team store doesn't know jack).

Do the newspapers switch their big league coverage? I was in Indy in '75, at Ft. Benjamin Harrison, going to Journalism school. The city was all about the Reds at the time.

Where do they trend now? I see they are affiliated with the Pirates.


 My best friend is a diehard Oriole fan.........but not because of the parent club at the time.........

When he was very young, he was watching the game where Mickey Mantle hit his 500th homer off Jack Fisher of the O's.  His dad went crazy for Mantle, and my friend, who (without checking) was about 10 at the time, felt bad for Fisher..........so at that very moment is when he became an Orioles fan.

In the area, the only baseball team that sells more merchandise locally then the Orioles is the Yankees, still to this day.

We have no Twins coverage.....in fact barely any local coverage of the Red Wings, definitely much less then the Rochester Americans hockey team for sure (parent club is the Buffalo Sabres).  MUCH MUCH more Buffalo Bills and Syracuse Orange coverage (we are directly in between those cities, roughly 90 miles each direction).  In fact we get 24/7/365 coverage of the Bills, it is very annoying (especially since they have the longest playoff drought currently).



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Umpire

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Date: February 12th
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seajaw wrote:

Another question:

Why did the Reds cut ties with Indianapolis?  Couldn't they come to a new deal with Indy when their working agreement expired? 


 The Indians have jumped around a lot.

http://www.milb.com/content/page.jsp?sid=t484&ymd=20050629&content_id=13455&vkey=team2



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Umpire

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Date: February 12th
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seajaw wrote:

Thanks, nac, NO.

Very interesting. Do fans in those cities, in general, tend to stay with the teams they grew up with? Or, do they switch when the organization does (even if the team store doesn't know jack).

Do the newspapers switch their big league coverage? I was in Indy in '75, at Ft. Benjamin Harrison, going to Journalism school. The city was all about the Reds at the time.

Where do they trend now? I see they are affiliated with the Pirates.


 I remember a guy in Montgomery clearly telling me he didn't care what happened outside of the Biscuits. It had no influence on him. The Tribe jumped around so much, but the Reds and Cubs are where loyalties lie around Indy.

News media cover the MLB team to the extent its relevant to their city. Indy, Savannah, Montgomery, San Antonio, Omaha, and Pensacola all share that trait on their news. I know from living there.



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General Manager

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Date: February 12th
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There are no loyalties any more...........

You would think, for example, that the Colorado Rockies AAA club would be the Colorado Springs Sky Sox. Nope..........their parent club is Milwaukee.

Minnesota's three top teams are located in........Rochester, NY (AAA)......Chattanooga, TN (AA).........and Fort Myers, FL (A).

They are the only team who doesn't have at least one of their top 3 teams either in the state, or very close (example, Toronto has Buffalo which is an hour away...Detroit has Toledo which is less then an hour drive). Many teams have two of their top clubs within say 100 miles.........Colorado is another team that has distant farm teams (Albuquerque, Hartford CT, and Lancaster PA...Albuquerque is 460 miles from Denver, but Rochester is 1000 miles from Minneapolis/St.Paul).

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"NACSTER'S HISTORICAL REPLAY"

34 REPLAYS IN THE BOOKS!

1876-1883

1896-1900

1906

1916-1917

1921, 1929

1936-1937

1943, 1946

1956-1963

1976

1986

1991, 1996

37,117 regular season games through 34 replays!

 

 



Luxury Box Season Ticket Holder

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Date: February 12th
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When I was a kid, the Columbus, Ohio AAA team was affiliated with the Pirates. They might have been called the Columbus Jets at the time. I saw a game or two when the Pirates played an exhibition game against them (likely for charity, as the Reds and Indianapolis did in what was called the "Kid Glove Game"). I had numerous friends who were Pirates fans, likely because of the Columbus-Pittsburgh connection. I saw a Columbus AAA game about 15 years ago. They were, to my naive surprise, affiliated with the Yankees at the time. I recall, as a youth, being a bit puzzled that the teams weren't called the Indianapolis Reds or the Columbus Pirates (or that the Columbus Jets weren't affiliated with the Reds or the Indians, for that matter). I know I would have gone to many more "Columbus Reds" games had they been so affiliated.



-- Edited by boomer on Sunday 12th of February 2017 07:48:12 PM

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Bullpen Coach

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Date: February 12th
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As a kid back in 1965, 1966 the Toledo Mudhens were the Yankee AAA farm club. So back then, I was a Yankee fan. Part of it was that I was able to watch guys in Toledo make it to the big leagues and I followed the players. Guys like Roger Repoz and Bobby Murcer (one of the worst shortstops I ever saw) Stan Bahnson and Jack Curtis. But nowadays, the players themselves are not loyal to any team - going to the highest bidder and moving around so much. So without loyal players, I lost any impetus to carry my loyalty to players very far. Of course, now I live near Cleveland so it would not matter about farm clubs.

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VP of Operations

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Date: February 13th
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I wonder what current arrangement between a city and Major League organization has been in play the longest, among current operating agreements.

I was surprised (I haven't followed closely) that Albuquerque was no longer affiliated with the Dodgers.

The Tides (Tidewater, Norfolk) had been associated with the Mets since 1969, so it surprised me they are now affiliated with Baltimore.

I see reading is still with the Phillies, and has been since 1967.  It must have been really tough for them, because they changed organizations three times in four years.  The Indians had Reading as a Class-A Eastern League club from 1952-'61.

Reading was without a team in 1962, but the Red Sox moved in for two years -- '63-'64 -- as the Eastern League was upgraded from A to AA.

The Indians reclaimed Reading for one year -- 1965.

Once again, in 1966, Reading was unoccupied.  The Phillies moved in in '67 and have been there since then.



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"No cell, no car, no credit cards, he's sixty-plus and gray...
Just sitting in his basement, with a Strat game underway."



General Manager

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Posts: 13519
Date: February 13th
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seajaw wrote:

I wonder what current arrangement between a city and Major League organization has been in play the longest, among current operating agreements.

I was surprised (I haven't followed closely) that Albuquerque was no longer affiliated with the Dodgers.

The Tides (Tidewater, Norfolk) had been associated with the Mets since 1969, so it surprised me they are now affiliated with Baltimore.

I see reading is still with the Phillies, and has been since 1967.  It must have been really tough for them, because they changed organizations three times in four years.  The Indians had Reading as a Class-A Eastern League club from 1952-'61.

Reading was without a team in 1962, but the Red Sox moved in for two years -- '63-'64 -- as the Eastern League was upgraded from A to AA.

The Indians reclaimed Reading for one year -- 1965.

Once again, in 1966, Reading was unoccupied.  The Phillies moved in in '67 and have been there since then.


 If you only use AAA teams, probably Boston and Pawtucket (1970-1972 AA, 1973-present AAA).

Toledo has been Detroit's farm team many times........currently since 1987



__________________

"NACSTER'S HISTORICAL REPLAY"

34 REPLAYS IN THE BOOKS!

1876-1883

1896-1900

1906

1916-1917

1921, 1929

1936-1937

1943, 1946

1956-1963

1976

1986

1991, 1996

37,117 regular season games through 34 replays!

 

 



VP of Operations

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Posts: 16191
Date: February 13th
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Funny you should mention Detroit and Toledo.

I actually have an unsigned working agreement between the Tigers and Toledo, dated 1952.

It's on onion paper and looks to be an original.

I'll try to get a couple of pics posted in the next day or two.

I also have a copy of a 1950 agreement between the Dodgers and Hollywood, of the PCL.

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"No cell, no car, no credit cards, he's sixty-plus and gray...
Just sitting in his basement, with a Strat game underway."

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